olson brothers

Just musing. The hill on the right looks like Beacon Hill in Kowloon as in here Noted the cross arm in the background. A nautical connection?

Would your View to Kowloon pic suggest that we can see Kowloon from Broadwood Ridge, Jill?

Just my thoughts.

Normally views of Beacon Hill from Nathan Road, Kowloon are directly in line.  Not sure but it looks like the photographer was taking the photo at a position west of Beacon Hill ? There seems to be open water (?) between the low rooftop wall and Beacon Hill. If one was on Broadwood Road, I would expect to see a city view below, then Kowloon and the Kowloon Hills.

Perhaps other contributors can chime in.

Charles on the left, John on the right (and family dog sprawled on the terrace floor?) 

The same location photo with Jons Jakobssson (aka John Olson) (1838-1918) and 7 of his grandsons, towards the end of the chapter 'Growing Families and Growing Expectations' in the 'Hong Kong Legacy'. The photo is taken at about the same time of 1916 given the age of Sonny Boy Melcher, the youngest in the photo - dare I say maybe even taken on the same day given the same overcast sky. May I even venture the photo was taken on 24th February 1916 - the 78th birthday of John Olson senior - a good reason for such a group photo. 

Yes, I would agree the location is to the west of the North-South line looking towards Beacon Hill. 

The big question is: what exactly is that cross like structure behind them? It's BIG. Knowing what it is and where will help pinpoint the location of the photo. Surely it should be present in other photos? 

Note: The same mast like structure is also seen at the beginning of the chapter 'The Fallout' in the same 'Hong Kong Legacy' link, where 10 children are lined up. It says there it was taken on the terrace at The Towers on Broadwood Road about 1917. 

Looks almost like there is a cross like structure above 7 Broadwood Road in this photo. Maybe its me imagining things (!)

I've just been looking at 'Hong Kong Legacy' and three quarters of the way through (Number 9/19 of 'Towers' search references) there is a photo of 10 of the Olson grandchildren in this same (or very similar) location.  The wall is similar, the porcelain plant stands are there, the tiled verandah is similar and the nautical 'mast-like structure' is there.  The only things missing are the sea and land in the distance.

The text says the following,  'this . . . can be seen from pictures of all the children taken on the terrace at The Towers on Broadwood Road probably around 1917.

'There are many other such pictures including a shot of John 2 and Charles Olson on the terrace which is in the possession of Jill Fell. They look very much at home on what was clearly the family’s chosen spot for pictures.'

Does that answer our question?

Could the mast-like-structure just be a straight forward street lamp?

Comments made here that the photo of the Olson brothers does not appear to have been taken at 13 Broadwood Road nor at 20 Broadwood Road ("The Towers").

Until a positive identification of the location can be made, should 13 Broadwood Road be deleted from the 'Tags" and under Place Location for the time being?

I wouldn't say it's definite yet (!) but I hope we can at least explore the possibility this photo was taken in TST, Kowloon. 

Inserting the photo below as the hills in the background to the right of the Olson Brothers look like the Kowloon hills, particularly Beacon Hill. A Kowloon (TST) location may be correct.

Yes that is a definite match. So 8 Humphrey's Avenue might actually be correct. So the view from the terrace actually faces north. 

OMG. The answer is so elegantly simple! How in hell can we all miss this? 

I now know exactly where this photo was taken. 

No, it's not The Towers. No, it's not 8 Humphrey's Avenue. 

Sorry Jill, too tired last night to explain (!). The penny just dropped when Klaus posted this John Thompson photo of the City Hall from the late 1860s. If you enlarge the photo you can see Beacon Hill across the harbour of Hong Kong from Hong Kong island. See the resemblance with the photo from this thread? 

Let's take a few steps back.

We have several photos of this terrace. 

In the Hong Kong Legacy there are two photos. One with Jons Jakobsson (aka John Olson) (1838-1918) sat down with 7 of his grandchildren. And another one with 10 of his grandchildren lined up in a row from eldest to youngest.

Then we have one with Jons Jakobsson’s sons, Charles and John Olson (on this thread).

All of them have the cross-like mast and row of potted plants behind them.

By the 1910s Jons Jakobsson was old, overweight and with a limited exercise tolerance. If this was the Towers he would have had to arrive there by rickshaw or motorcar. Even with a strong Chinaman it would be superhuman strength to run up Broadwood Road with him in the seat. My portly English grandfather at his peak was 300lbs and he managed to damage a rickshaw under his weight. Even if Jons got to 20 Broadwood Road – rickshaw or motorcar - there would be a separate climb up to the Towers. And the view from the terrace there would include a city view below, harbour, Kowloon and then hills etc. There is none of that here. 

If it was Humphrey Avenue – again we would see other buildings, Observatory hill immediately behind etc. There is none of that here. 

The best photo of the terrace is the one here with Charles and John Olson. What we definitely see is Beacon Hill in the background. But it’s just to the right of John Olson’s left shoulder. And we also see a body of water. 

The common denominator for Jons Jakobsson, Charles Olson and John Olson in the 1910s? 

They all resided at 98 Wanchai Road (Juror’s Lists, death certificate of Jons (1918) and his wife Ching Ah Fung (1915), birth of his grandchild Charles (Tubby) Olson (son of John Oslon) in 1913)

This is a view from Wanchai. 

In the 1910s the East Praya was right up against Johnston Road/Wanchai Road. Hence the body of water just behind is Hong Kong harbour and Beacon Hill is to the right of John Olson’s left shoulder because the view from the East praya in Wanchai is angled due NW. 

It would make sense for Jons Jakobsson’s grandchildren to visit the old man, where he lives, rather than Jon visit the youngsters, be it at the Towers or Humphrey Avenue (rickshaw/tram to ferry, ferry across harbour, another rickshaw ride in Kowloon for an old man – really?). And this ties in with the other two photos of Jons during this period which were probably also taken on Wanchai Road - it’s within pottering distance for him with his walking stick.  

The mast-like structure was on the street just in front/behind the building at 98 Wanchai Road.

My next big question for all gwulo-ites is: where exactly was 98 Wanchai Road in the 1910s? The Jurors list indicate the presence of 98A, 98B, 98C, 98D – are these addresses a sub-division of a tenement building and the ‘terrace’ in the photos is thus the roof of the building in question? The even numbers on Wanchai Road were on the north side and the odd numbers were on the south side of Wanchai Road. 

Take a look at this view at the junction of Johnston Road and Wanchai Road. 

It’s so tempting to say the building immediately behind the Hong Kong Corinthian Yacht Club with the low roof and rows of potted plants on the ledge (zoom in) is the building in question because the view from there across the body of water of the Hong Kong harbour all the way to the Kowloon hills would fit perfectly. And the big mast pole of the HKCYC is the cross mast-like structure we see in all the photos. But that building would be approximately 103 Wanchai Road. Unless there was some re-numbering exercise? 

All views welcome.  

A long discussion here regarding the location of 98 Wanchai Road. A summary here

A photo of a funeral procession from a verandah may suggest/indicate its location here But not the mast like structure as seen in the main photo above.

Not sure if the Warrens or Olsons had resided at different places on Wanchai Road previously as the renumbering of Wanchai Road in the past has also made it difficult to pinpoint the address. 

Thank you to moddsey and Jill for the additional information. The prior dogged research on 98 Wanchai Road was fascinating but it fried my brain! Thanks to the Herculean efforts of David, Patricia, Sean and Jill back then! 

I think it’s credible that these terraced photos were that of the Olson’s 98 Wanchai Road address. 

My impression from the photos was that just behind the building was literally East Praya with its tram line as we have an uninterrupted view of the sea/harbour. And the cross-mast arose from the praya just behind the building.

Having read through the previous convoluted discussions about the location of the Olson’s 98 Wanchai Road address – my understanding is that the terraced photos were that of 98A Wanchai Road which was on Marine Lot 122. This meant the cross-mast arose from where Hennessy Road is now. I think both 98A and 98B was used in a residential capacity but 98A was used more for that purpose and 98B may have functioned in a dual business capacity. Any basements could have functioned as a storage-cum-warehouse.  

For illustrative purposes only, there is an example of a cross-like-mast on Johnston Road in front of a praya-facing-building that towered just above a roof with a ledge with an uninterrupted view of the harbour as shown here (this was in front of No. 2 Police Station slightly more west to the 98 Wanchai Road address but at a time when reclamation was well underway). This proves such an arrangement did in fact exist for the area we are interested in. 

We don’t have a clear independent photo of Olson’s 98 Wanchai Road address during that time-period. I thought with the property facing the harbour there would have been a greater than average probability of a photographic record. It would appear panoramic shots of the Hong Kong waterfront focused heavily on the City of Victoria. Wanchai was an unaesthetic backwater of little photographic interest. 

Incidentally I think this location suited Jon Jakobsson. Great harbour view. It could have facilitated a degree of independence for him as he could have taken a tram to Victoria and back given the proximity of the tram line. If he were to live at Broadwood Road – though its fancy and beautiful – he would have effectively been imprisoned given its difficult isolated location for someone of reduced mobility. One drawback of the Wanchai address would have been the cacophony of gongs, drums and cymbals of a funeral procession every now and then. But it looks like from Jill’s newspaper clipping they were not shy of maximising their business potential with the monumental showroom facing Wanchai Road! 

Thanks for the extremely useful timeline summary Jill. Lots to unpack but easily tackled.

We have a series of 4 photos of the terrace in roughly chronological order:

1) Olson brothers

2) John Olson senior with 7 grandsons 

3) 10 grandchildren lined up in height/age order

4) Unknown woman 

Out of the photos, the ones that can be dated with decent certainty are the ones with the grandchildren as we know who they were and how old they were. Photo 2 is anytime from 1916 to before August 1917. Photo 3 is January 1917-August 1917.

Ergo there must be an address that was consistently associated with the Olsons over this period of time. 

By that token we can eliminate 4 Fairview, TST – it was not available by 1916. And by the same token eliminate Observatory Villas. This leaves Wanchai Road and Broadwood Road properties as the list of contenders. 

Now going further, based on the clear view of Beacon Hill and body of water in the Olson Brothers photo, 98 Wanchai Road trumps Broadwood Road properties as the likelier contender. The Olson brothers photo – you can make out what appears to be a ship in the gap between Charles Olson’s right sleeve and waist. And you can also make out what appears to be a ship on the left of the Unknown woman photo; and on the right of the same photo, appearances compatible with the reclamation project that would have been undergoing in the early 1920s. 

Crossbar

Photos of a straightforward terrace or roof could literally have been anywhere in Hong Kong making it almost impossible to identity unless you knew the address from personal sources. But in your family photos you have the consistent presence of this distinctive crossbar in the background making it a useful identification marker for future confirmation of a location. We just at this point do not have another clear independent photo showing this crossbar with a building that would fit your family photos. Maybe we will find it one day. And I think the pole in the unknown lady photo was a different one to the others – this one is so close it is literally arising from the ledge. 

Moustache 

This appears once puberty kicks in. So it could be there from the teenage years. And you can easily make yourself look younger by shaving it off. The age range from 18 to early 30s can sometimes be difficult to tease apart. So it's more subjective but I do take your point. 

The cat question 

Unlike a hill or sea or a building, a cat is far more portable. In the hierarchy of evidence for location, it will rank below those other former listed objects. For the Charles Warren photo – the hills, foliage and sun lighting levels and position, a Kowloon peninsula location is very plausible. With the Olson brothers photo, the Beacon Hill and body of water makes a Hong Kong island, Wanchai location very plausible. The cat goes with its human owner. 

However, I don’t think it’s the same cat. 

The Olson bothers photo shows a skinny little thing, short coat and light colouring on the crown of the head distinctly lighter than the dark colouring of the triangular pointy ears. There is also dark colouring of the tail, paws and nose – all features that point to the very definition of a Siamese cat. The Charles Warren photo shows the crown of the cat with the same dark colouring as the rounded ears – not a Siamese cat. 

Once all the evidence – positive and negative are collated – 98 Wanchai Road seems to come out as the most credible location for the series of terrace photos. 

It is not a telegraphic mast. It is not a lamp post. 

It must be for hoisting a flag by the praya. IS THAT what we should be hunting for? 

Being Hong Kong, hoisting typhoon signals also briefly crossed my mind but I doubt it. 

Again, that indirectly supports a Wanchai praya location. Why would there be a flag mast at Broadwood Road? 

Went over the information for Marine Lots 111 and 122 on gwulo.

Fortunately, the 1938 Street Index for Wanchai Road provides very useful information:

a) 94B, 96, 96A, 96B, 96C, 96D, 96E and 98 Wanchai Road were on Inland Lot 2255 and located between Mallory Street and Heard Street. In 1938, these addresses were at 166-180 Wanchai Road. See here. The previous lot number was Marine Lot 111.

b) 98A, 98B, 98C and 98D were on Marine Lots 122 and 123. In 1938, these addresses were at 216-222 Wanchai Road and midway between Heard Street and Tin Lok Lane. See here

The street addresses listed above were on the same side of the road and on the northern side of Wanchai Road.

On gwulo, we have these photographs of the godowns on Wanchai Road. See here. The godowns help us locate the addresses of 98A-98B or 216-218 Wanchai Road. The early photographs show four 4 godowns. The two godowns (westernmost) that survived till the 1970s were located at 204-206 and 208-210 Wanchai Road. See 1965 street map here

The other two godowns (easternmost) do not appear in later photographs. See here

A building at 212-214 Wanchai Road and a petrol station (today's basketball court) at a lower level facing Hennessy Road replaced the easternmost godowns. 

The earliest photograph that I have seen of 98A or 216 Wanchai Road is this one from 1941 (Harrison Forman). See here 

In later years, 216 Wanchai Road became the Hong Kong Funeral Home. See here

Getting back to the main photo. Maps prior to the Praya East Reclamation do show a long pier facing Marine Lot 122. Is that the connection for the mast or is the mast part of the factory/residence of 98A/216 Wanchai Road ?