Charles Warren & unknown women

jill
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Charles Warren & unkown women

This photo was developed by my cousin, Brian Lewis, and was among a collection of negatives given to him by our cousin Diana Taschereau, originating from early family photos and negatives brought to Canada by her mother, Cicely Warren after WW2. Our grandfather, Charles Warren is standing on the right holding a Siamese cat that appears in a photo from the same batch that I've uploaded as "Olson brothers". If not 13 Broadwood Road, I think the location may be at a family house built earlier than The Towers but would be grateful if anyone can identify the line of hills in the background in order to pinpoint the location. None of the women shown in the photo are known to me, nor recognized by my generation of Olsons, but the older woman does appear on the steps of The Towers in another (perhaps later) photo. Again, I would be delighted if any of the women can be identified from other photos of the period. In 1915 both C.E. Warren and J. Olson were recorded as the ratepayers for Ridge House, 13 Broadwood Road, but Charles Warren was still giving his home address as 4 Fairview, Kowloon. The Towers wasn't completed until 1916. The occasion for this photo was perhaps a summer party.

Date picture taken
1910s
Tags
Hills
C.E. Warren
party
unkown women
cat
Gallery
1910s-40s Warren family's photos
Shows person / people
Charles Edward WARREN [1872-1923]

Comments

Let’s employ inductive reasoning. 

Light is dim. It’s either dusk or dawn. Given the elegantly dressed attire of the photographed party the odds are this scene is far more likely taken at dusk and the party are having a warm evening soiree. 

The light is from the left of the photo, the sun is setting in the west, and we are looking north. 

Those must therefore be the hills of Kowloon.

Given there is decent foliage (in the 1910s) and more private Western residences on the east side of Tsim Sha Tsui (c.f. western half of TST) I think we are looking slightly NW from a private residence located in the eastern part of Tsim Sha Tsui, within walking distance of Fairview. Kowloon Tong wasn’t really well developed at this point in time and the ladies are dressed in delicate white – hence I believe it’s more likely 'urban' TST than rural Kowloon Tong. 

I think the silhouetted hilly outline is west of Lion Rock and east of Beacon Hill.

A sample silhouette from a photo within gwulo which may correspond to what we see in the photo:

kowloon hills, by eurasian_david

Jill, any clues as to who Charles E. Warren may have socialised with in the 1910s in Kowloon? That may help to identify location and identify the women. The middle lady will be the wife of a friend of C.E. Warren, as she is wearing a wedding ring on her left ring finger. And there is a good chance all 3 ladies also live on Kowloon side. 

That's very impressive detective work, David! I'm afraid I have absolutely no idea about my grandfather's social life in Kowloon. What you have established is that the photo was taken prior to either the Warrens' or the Olsons' move to Broadwood Road. The cat only appears a second time in the terrace photo with the Olson brothers and probably belongs to the Olsons. The photo may have been taken at their Kowloon house. I will look up the probable address. We have to assume that the older lady was not the hostess of the party though, in which case the photo would have been taken in her garden. 

Worth going through any funerals or weddings C.E. Warren (or Hannah or any of the Olsons) attended and fine comb tooth the list of names of whoever turned up - friends, work colleagues etc. to help pin down the ladies' identities. 

The cat is a great point Jill. You are not going to bring a cat to a soiree. The cat *lives* at that address. The ladies seem to be standing a little deferentially behind C.E. Warren (and the body language of the middle lady is pointing her right foot towards C.E. Warren) or he is putting himself forwards dominantly relative to the ladies - assuming he would not do that to the hostess of the party - and he is holding the cat comfortably (like Blofeld in the Bond films!) like he knows it very well. So C.E. Warren is comfortable with this address and assuming a more commanding role in this little group gathering. So if the cat belongs to the Olsons - the garden of their address would be the most likely place where this photo was taken. 

Could the photo have been taken in the garden of 8 Humphrey's Avenue? It is the address where John and Annie Olson lived before moving to 13 Broadwood Road and where their children, Hugh and Ossie were born in 1909 and 1910 respectively. 

Here is another photo of the Olsons' cat. It was in the same batch of negatives as the photo under discussion. There is a faint line of hills in the background.

olson brothers, by jill

8 Humphreys Avenue is on the north side of Humphrey's Avenue which means the garden would be north facing to get the Kowloon Hills view - perfect.

Looking at the overlay of the 1903 map of Kowloon, Humphrey's Avenue did not exist then. It was there in the 1920 map of Kowloon overlay so the road and buildings came into existence between these 2 dates. 

Riffing on the latest photo of the Olson brothers with the cat - if that was taken at the terrace of 8 Humphrey's Avenue, it looks like the sea and hills in the background. That means we are viewing due east across Kowloon Bay, and the hills on the left of the photo are more towards Lei Yue Mun and to the right of the photo, more towards North Point, HK island. The lighting seems to be coming from behind them so the photo may have been taken on the morning of an overcast day.

1900s Tsim Sha Tsui (East of Carnarvon Road), by moddsey

This view circa 1906 is the best one so far. The diagonal road in the foreground is Hanoi Road, going towards the left of the photo where it would join with Carnarvon Road. So just above that intersection would be where the future Humphrey's Avenue would be. It looks like there is no building there in this view but there are clumps of trees here and there in this early view of TST. There's an uninterrupted view due east to Kowloon Bay (even in the 1920 overlay map). Unfortunately the sky has been artificially illustrated over with fake clouds and background mountains in this postcard so we can't see what the view to the Kowloon hills was really like. 

1908 Chatham Road, by Admin

The vertical road going up on the left hand side of the photo - that should be Hart Avenue - at the top end is a cross like structure. I think that is an example of the same cross like structure we see behind the Olson brothers in their terrace photo with the cat. I think it's street electricity wiring? 

Incidentally this view shows the Kowloon hills accurately! 

1910s Junction of Carnarvon Rd and Humphreys Avenue., by moddsey

In this circa 1915 view we are looking down Humphreys Avenue just to the right of the ladies. If it was 8 Humphrey's Avenue for the C.E. Warren photo then it would be the garden of one of the houses on the right. It doesn't really fit with the Olson brothers terrace photo as there is another house (on extreme right) that would block the view to Kowloon Bay. 

We need more views of this area to get a feel of the housing here. 

The cross-like structures with wiring exist on the streets so the general area may be correct. 

Where is this?, by anonymous-01

My understanding is this photo (from this thread) was sent by Charles Olson to his nephews in England asking if they recognised this place. If sent to Hugh and Ossie (who were being educated in England), it was their birthplace, their original home on Humphrey's Avenue (the houses on the right of the centre straight street - not sure if No. 8 was the white facing one we can see on the right or the one behind it - I think it is the dark roofed house behind IMHO). By this point Charles was living in Prat Avenue in the building on the extreme left of the photo. I know this view is later in the 1920s and there is a row of houses BEHIND the houses fronting Humphrey's Avenue but it does make me think how from 8 Humphrey's Avenue there can be a good line of sight to the hills of Kowloon or whether there was a garden behind No. 8 Humphrey's Avenue in the first place. 

I think the C.E. Warren photo with unknown women was taken in the vicinity here in the 1910s. It's possible the soirée was at 8 Humphrey's Avenue and the party-goers took a dusk stroll nearby (with the cat in hand!?) and took that photo very nearby to 8 Humphrey's Avenue.