We'll need to get some more detailed photos to see what's there.
The map of pillboxes I've been using does show Pillbox #40 on the coast near there, but it was on a small headland slightly to the west. The coastline looks different today after reclamation, but I'd guess it was roughly where the red marker is on the map below.
I guess there must be more than one pillbox around the area. The one in my photo sent to you earlier is situated in the narrows of the channel. I believe the whole headland used to be the Redoubt/Barrack lot, even way up to Chai Wan Road opposite the Shaukiwan Government Secondary School/Fire Station.
somewhere around that part of the coast is also an old torpedo range, (this is my spitfire source again). You can see the entrance to it if you go past by boat. It is a rectangular slot in the base of the cliff.
Does anyone know anything else about it? Just wondering when it ceased operation.
White Ensign - Red Dragon records the earliest torpedoes were manufactured in the Naval Yard and the earliest account of a torpedo trial took place in 1878 when a junk was towed out into Lyemun Pass from Shaukiwan and subsequently blown up, albeit at the second attempt!
Information about the Brennan Torpedo Station at Lyemun and the Brennan Torpedo can be viewed here:
The 1905 report of the Committee on Armaments of Home Ports recommended the removal of all Brennan torpedoes from the fixed defences because of their comparatively short range (2,000 yards) and the difficulty of launching them at night. Manufacture of the Brennan torpedo was ceased in 1906
Moddsey, any chance that book talks about any earlier torpedoes? On a recent browse through the Mapping Hong Kong book, plate 2-3 ('Sea defense maps', dated 1876) caught my eye. It marks torpedoes across Sulphur Channel, 'Lymoon Pass', and the section of the harbour between Shau kei Wan and Yau Tong.
Based on your information that's too early for them to be Brennan torpedoes (my original guess), so I wonder what they were?
MrB
PS thanks for the palmerstonforts link. It has photos and history of several of the forts around the Milford Haven waterway, the area I grew up. We'd go and play in them, and explore the tunels, so it was good to see them again.
With reference to the torpedo trial in my previous posting, the torpedoes that were fired were from a pinnace. Did not mean to give the impression that the earlier torpedoes were Brennan types. The book does have two photographs of torpedo boats, one dating to 1873. These torpedo boats may be ones that are referenced in the Mapping Hong Kong book that guarded the eastern and western entrances to Victoria Harbour.
After reading moddsey message I decided to visit the Museum of Coastal Defence. Indeed, the construction I caught in the tele-photo sent to MrB was not just a pillbox, they are actually Gun Ports. There is no way for me to estimate what guns had been used back then. However from the bolts on the floor of one of the gun ports it won't be a big gun.
The torpedo launch rail is further eastward beyond the red beacon.
After reading through the guide tour map I realized the answers are already there. The guns in used in the Lower Fort had been rapid fire six pounders, capable to fire twenty (20) round per minutes, and with a effective range of around 4,000 yards.
Comments
re: Pillbox at Lyemun
We'll need to get some more detailed photos to see what's there.
The map of pillboxes I've been using does show Pillbox #40 on the coast near there, but it was on a small headland slightly to the west. The coastline looks different today after reclamation, but I'd guess it was roughly where the red marker is on the map below.
[gmap markers=letters::22.32959351535785,114.23086166381836 |markers=big red::22.282167062812068,114.23154830932617 |zoom=16 |center=22.281988364277538,114.2327606678009 |width=480px |height=320px |id=macro_map |control=Small |type=Satellite]
Pillboxes around Lyemun Redoubt/Barrack
Hi there,
I guess there must be more than one pillbox around the area. The one in my photo sent to you earlier is situated in the narrows of the channel. I believe the whole headland used to be the Redoubt/Barrack lot, even way up to Chai Wan Road opposite the Shaukiwan Government Secondary School/Fire Station.
It warrants another outing sometime anyway.
Best Regards,
T
Torpedo range
somewhere around that part of the coast is also an old torpedo range, (this is my spitfire source again). You can see the entrance to it if you go past by boat. It is a rectangular slot in the base of the cliff.
Does anyone know anything else about it? Just wondering when it ceased operation.
Brennan Torpedo
White Ensign - Red Dragon records the earliest torpedoes were manufactured in the Naval Yard and the earliest account of a torpedo trial took place in 1878 when a junk was towed out into Lyemun Pass from Shaukiwan and subsequently blown up, albeit at the second attempt!
Information about the Brennan Torpedo Station at Lyemun and the Brennan Torpedo can be viewed here:
http://www.lcsd.gov.hk/CE/Museum/Coastal/en/section3-2-10.php
http://www.britarch.ac.uk/projects/DOB/deflin5/torpedo.html
http://www.palmerstonforts.org.uk/fortlog/brenn.htm
The 1905 report of the Committee on Armaments of Home Ports recommended the removal of all Brennan torpedoes from the fixed defences because of their comparatively short range (2,000 yards) and the difficulty of launching them at night. Manufacture of the Brennan torpedo was ceased in 1906
supplement
To supplement moddsey ‘s book list
White Ensign ~ Red Dragon The History Of The Royal Navy In Hong Kong
ISBN 962 7982 24 5 still available from good book stores.
The Royal Navy in Hong Kong Since 1841 ISBN 0 907771 19 X out of print.
pre-Brennan Torpedoes
Moddsey, any chance that book talks about any earlier torpedoes? On a recent browse through the Mapping Hong Kong book, plate 2-3 ('Sea defense maps', dated 1876) caught my eye. It marks torpedoes across Sulphur Channel, 'Lymoon Pass', and the section of the harbour between Shau kei Wan and Yau Tong.
Based on your information that's too early for them to be Brennan torpedoes (my original guess), so I wonder what they were?
MrB
PS thanks for the palmerstonforts link. It has photos and history of several of the forts around the Milford Haven waterway, the area I grew up. We'd go and play in them, and explore the tunels, so it was good to see them again.
Pre-Brennan Torpedo
With reference to the torpedo trial in my previous posting, the torpedoes that were fired were from a pinnace. Did not mean to give the impression that the earlier torpedoes were Brennan types. The book does have two photographs of torpedo boats, one dating to 1873. These torpedo boats may be ones that are referenced in the Mapping Hong Kong book that guarded the eastern and western entrances to Victoria Harbour.
Lower Fort - Lyemun
Hi there,
After reading moddsey message I decided to visit the Museum of Coastal Defence. Indeed, the construction I caught in the tele-photo sent to MrB was not just a pillbox, they are actually Gun Ports. There is no way for me to estimate what guns had been used back then. However from the bolts on the floor of one of the gun ports it won't be a big gun.
The torpedo launch rail is further eastward beyond the red beacon.
Best Regards,
T
Answers.....
Hi there,
After reading through the guide tour map I realized the answers are already there. The guns in used in the Lower Fort had been rapid fire six pounders, capable to fire twenty (20) round per minutes, and with a effective range of around 4,000 yards.
Small guns indeed.
T
Photos of the Brennan Torpedo
Courtesy of Moddsey: