What is the definition of a butcher shop please? Are butchers selling only raw meat of sort? If that is so, this might not fit as what we are able to see haning on hooks are cooked meat
I think 'butcher's shop' is as near to describing those shops as we can get. A 'BBQ shop' would mean nothing to anyone in the UK. In the UK, butchers' shops would traditionally concentrate on raw meat but they have also 'always' sold some cooked meats - cooked ham for example. Increasingly, with the competition from supermarkets and huge hypermarkets, butchers have had to diversify into selling all sorts of pies including fruit ones - and I know of some round where I live that even sell vegetables. Highly specialist food shops have become quite unusual. So far, I believe that Hong Kong has been spared from the onslaught of the hypermarkets.
I tried to delete those images via the 'edit' facility but it doesn't work.
I learned the term Seal-Larp-Po (Cantonese-HK dialect) in my younger days. Po is shop/store while seal and larp translate to burn or BBQ, and preserved, respectively. The "burn" implies meats that are BBQ'ed (actually done in enclosed oven) and are shown on the right half of the display. These shops typically also sell cooked chicken as shown on the left. They also sell other assortment of cooked meat like chicken wings, pork paws, and octopus.
I do not see any larp meat which refers to the preserved sausages and pressed ducks shown in another Andrew's photo, but we still use the term today especially the senior generation in north America. Change in people's demand has virtually phased out lap meat at these shops. I wonder if there is an English term that best describes these shops.
To add, a personal preference which I think many readers would agree, BBQ meats are best when they are just out of the oven, and still fine when they are at room temperature. Re-cooked or re-heat BBQ meat does not taste as good. A few decades ago, the city of Toronto considered requiring these shops to keep their BBQ meats refrigerated, and there was an uproar from shop owners citing high costs. The idea was dropped.
There are two types of meat companies in Hong Kong. One type selling raw meat. The other selling cooked meat. The one in your picture is selling cooked meat and cooked meat only. They usually are separate but sure there are exceptions. The first type may be the closest you can called a butcher shop. They still exist today.
The following shops on Wanchai road show both types of shops: The middle one even selling live chickens which is kind of rare today. You can ask the staff there process it or you can bring it home to do it yourself.
Another one showing one selling cooked, the other raw meat. They are separate companies. The sign of the cooked meat shop reads "roasted food". As oldtimer pointed out, the chinese sign is "Seal-Larp". The raw meat shop they simply call it "meat company" in English. That gives you an idea what they call them in Hong Kong in English.
By the way, Larp-duck means waxed duck though there is no wax used. They simply hang it up to dry for about two weeks. In the old days, some just put them on the pavement in front of their shop under the sun to dry. With a lot of flies over them. Yuck!
Thank you Oldtimer Peter and simtang for the explanations and also for the up to date photographs of the two types of meat shops. I often wondered what the pressed duck would taste like when cooked. In 2021 are they still displayed outside some of the meat shops, or has that style of preservation and eventual cooking gone out of fashion? Regards Andrew
Pressed duck sounds like a French cuisine. In Hong Kong, they have the waxed duck or Larp duck. It seems missing in that particular shop in your picture
It looks like this:
==========================================
waxed duck.png, by simtang
==============================================
My impression is that it is very salty and unhealthy. Also it takes a long time to make because you have to dry the duck for two weeks according to an online recipe by hanging it up. That may be the reason it has gone out of fashion.
But you can still find it in Hong Kong if you look hard enough. Like this one:
The method of making these stuff predated electricity and commercial\domestic refrigerating. Different races uses similar method of do it by using salts and sunlight to dehydrade the meat for preservation all over the globe. How much salt was used tends to differ from place to place. Some variations would smoke the meat concerned. But those Guangdong style tend not to use smoke.
On the other hand, generations before people tend to labour more than their present day counterparts thus a little bit more of saltiness may not be that bad if replenishment of salts is concerned. Moderation is much advised for us though. Only eat these when there are sufficient numbers to have a taste.
I think you got the words 臘&蠟 mixed up. 蠟 is wax, but 臘 is not, it's used as in 臘月, etc. Spatchcocked duck is an apt description of its look, maybe it should be called a "cured SPATCHDUCK".
Andrew - as for its taste, think cured ham or prosciutto, but with a ducky instead of porky taste. It's meant to be eaten in small quantities, for its taste and not as the main source of protein. It's usually chopped into small pieces similar to a BBQ duck and put on top of a pot of rice to cook when the rice is half done, i.e. when most of the water has been absorbed and is still bubbling, so that most of the taste would not be leached out into the water, as in clay pot rice; the delicious aromatic grease would render out and seep into the rice. Sometimes it's sliced thin and stir-fried with some greens, or diced up and used in other dishes.
Not to sound pedantic. 臘 and 蠟 are used interchangeably. According to Kangxi Dictionary , a dictionary ordered to be compiled by the Kangxi Emperor of the Qing dynasty, they have the same meaning. It is regarded as the most authoritative dictionary of Chinese characters. There is an entry for 蠟 which means a sacrifice offered at end of the year. If I understand correctly, it says it is called 蠟 in the Zhou dynasty and 臘 in the Qin dynasty.
(kind of funny the link below is from a mainland China version which converted everything into simplified characters) (Too lazy to search for the Hong Kong or Taiwan version which should be the original one)
My interpretation is that both 蠟 and 臘 can be used interchangeably to refer to the year-end ceremony, and 臘 also connotates DRY (meat), but 蠟 also refers to WAX, and not to DRY.
I think 蠟 or 臘肉 has the meaning "meat used for the year end ceremony" in Chinese history. That's why Chinese families though may not eat them very often, they will buy it to celebrate the Chinese New year in Hong Kong. Short of a better translation, they usually directly translated 蠟 into wax. To translate it into Zhous dynasty meat or year end meat may be a bit awkward. It never come to the mind of most people it means dried meat which would deprive the thing of its historical significance. People usually associate it with “臘月”、“臘冬” which means last month of chinese calendar.
What a wonderful discussion about something that intrigued me all those years ago. I can now visualise the taste and relate it to some extent to the Spanish or Italian dry-cured hams that I enjoy and which are eaten in similarly small quatities. I recall my first taste of roasted duck, or possibly chicken, skin that was served as a sort of appetizer in a restaurant somewhere in Wanchai. Since then I have always enjoyed crisply cooked turkey or chicken skin, and I shalll make sure that, when I cook our Christmas turkey in a day or so, the skin is nicely crisped. In some ways it is a better experience than eating the actual meat! My best wishes to everyone in the Gwulo 'family' for a happy Christmas, and good health and fortune in 2022. Andrew in England.
Comments
Re: Cooked or BBQ shop
Hi there,
I have a question.
What is the definition of a butcher shop please? Are butchers selling only raw meat of sort? If that is so, this might not fit as what we are able to see haning on hooks are cooked meat
Thanks & Best Regards,
T
Hi T
Hi T
I think 'butcher's shop' is as near to describing those shops as we can get. A 'BBQ shop' would mean nothing to anyone in the UK. In the UK, butchers' shops would traditionally concentrate on raw meat but they have also 'always' sold some cooked meats - cooked ham for example. Increasingly, with the competition from supermarkets and huge hypermarkets, butchers have had to diversify into selling all sorts of pies including fruit ones - and I know of some round where I live that even sell vegetables. Highly specialist food shops have become quite unusual. So far, I believe that Hong Kong has been spared from the onslaught of the hypermarkets.
I tried to delete those images via the 'edit' facility but it doesn't work.
Regards Andrew
Butcher Shop
I learned the term Seal-Larp-Po (Cantonese-HK dialect) in my younger days. Po is shop/store while seal and larp translate to burn or BBQ, and preserved, respectively. The "burn" implies meats that are BBQ'ed (actually done in enclosed oven) and are shown on the right half of the display. These shops typically also sell cooked chicken as shown on the left. They also sell other assortment of cooked meat like chicken wings, pork paws, and octopus.
I do not see any larp meat which refers to the preserved sausages and pressed ducks shown in another Andrew's photo, but we still use the term today especially the senior generation in north America. Change in people's demand has virtually phased out lap meat at these shops. I wonder if there is an English term that best describes these shops.
To add, a personal preference which I think many readers would agree, BBQ meats are best when they are just out of the oven, and still fine when they are at room temperature. Re-cooked or re-heat BBQ meat does not taste as good. A few decades ago, the city of Toronto considered requiring these shops to keep their BBQ meats refrigerated, and there was an uproar from shop owners citing high costs. The idea was dropped.
butcher shop
There are two types of meat companies in Hong Kong. One type selling raw meat. The other selling cooked meat. The one in your picture is selling cooked meat and cooked meat only. They usually are separate but sure there are exceptions. The first type may be the closest you can called a butcher shop. They still exist today.
The following shops on Wanchai road show both types of shops: The middle one even selling live chickens which is kind of rare today. You can ask the staff there process it or you can bring it home to do it yourself.
==============================================================
Another one showing one selling cooked, the other raw meat. They are separate companies. The sign of the cooked meat shop reads "roasted food". As oldtimer pointed out, the chinese sign is "Seal-Larp". The raw meat shop they simply call it "meat company" in English. That gives you an idea what they call them in Hong Kong in English.
By the way, Larp-duck means waxed duck though there is no wax used. They simply hang it up to dry for about two weeks. In the old days, some just put them on the pavement in front of their shop under the sun to dry. With a lot of flies over them. Yuck!
Thank you Oldtimer Peter and
Thank you Oldtimer Peter and simtang for the explanations and also for the up to date photographs of the two types of meat shops. I often wondered what the pressed duck would taste like when cooked. In 2021 are they still displayed outside some of the meat shops, or has that style of preservation and eventual cooking gone out of fashion? Regards Andrew
pressed duck
Pressed duck sounds like a French cuisine. In Hong Kong, they have the waxed duck or Larp duck. It seems missing in that particular shop in your picture
It looks like this:
==========================================
==============================================
My impression is that it is very salty and unhealthy. Also it takes a long time to make because you have to dry the duck for two weeks according to an online recipe by hanging it up. That may be the reason it has gone out of fashion.
But you can still find it in Hong Kong if you look hard enough. Like this one:
https://www.landmark.hk/en/visit/around-central/wo-hing-chinese-preserv…
The usual menu of a roasted food shop in Hong Kong is like this. Not all of them are roasted though. Most of them are also in your picture.
===============================================================
=================================================================
Re: preserved meat
Hi There,
The method of making these stuff predated electricity and commercial\domestic refrigerating. Different races uses similar method of do it by using salts and sunlight to dehydrade the meat for preservation all over the globe. How much salt was used tends to differ from place to place. Some variations would smoke the meat concerned. But those Guangdong style tend not to use smoke.
On the other hand, generations before people tend to labour more than their present day counterparts thus a little bit more of saltiness may not be that bad if replenishment of salts is concerned. Moderation is much advised for us though. Only eat these when there are sufficient numbers to have a taste.
T
Spatchcocked duck
Hi simtang,
I think you got the words 臘&蠟 mixed up. 蠟 is wax, but 臘 is not, it's used as in 臘月, etc. Spatchcocked duck is an apt description of its look, maybe it should be called a "cured SPATCHDUCK".
Andrew - as for its taste, think cured ham or prosciutto, but with a ducky instead of porky taste. It's meant to be eaten in small quantities, for its taste and not as the main source of protein. It's usually chopped into small pieces similar to a BBQ duck and put on top of a pot of rice to cook when the rice is half done, i.e. when most of the water has been absorbed and is still bubbling, so that most of the taste would not be leached out into the water, as in clay pot rice; the delicious aromatic grease would render out and seep into the rice. Sometimes it's sliced thin and stir-fried with some greens, or diced up and used in other dishes.
Delicatessen (Deli)
Delicatessen - shop that sells ready-to-eat food products
臘&蠟
Not to sound pedantic. 臘 and 蠟 are used interchangeably. According to Kangxi Dictionary , a dictionary ordered to be compiled by the Kangxi Emperor of the Qing dynasty, they have the same meaning. It is regarded as the most authoritative dictionary of Chinese characters. There is an entry for 蠟 which means a sacrifice offered at end of the year. If I understand correctly, it says it is called 蠟 in the Zhou dynasty and 臘 in the Qin dynasty.
(kind of funny the link below is from a mainland China version which converted everything into simplified characters) (Too lazy to search for the Hong Kong or Taiwan version which should be the original one)
http://xh.5156edu.com/kx/a16453b37652c14913d.html
but WAX is always written as
but WAX is always written as 蠟, not as 臘
From the link you provided,
康熙字典解字：
腊 原文:【廣韻】【集韻】【韻會】【正韻】
思積切，音昔。【說文】乾肉也 。从殘肉，日以晞之。
蠟 原文:【唐韻】盧盍切【集韻】【韻會】力盍切，
音臘。【玉篇】蜜滓也。【陸佃云】蜂之化蜜，必取匽豬之水，注之蠟房，而後成蜜。故謂之蠟者，蜜之蹠也。【本草】蟲白蠟。
My interpretation is that both 蠟 and 臘 can be used interchangeably to refer to the year-end ceremony, and 臘 also connotates DRY (meat), but 蠟 also refers to WAX, and not to DRY.
waxed meat
I think 蠟 or 臘肉 has the meaning "meat used for the year end ceremony" in Chinese history. That's why Chinese families though may not eat them very often, they will buy it to celebrate the Chinese New year in Hong Kong. Short of a better translation, they usually directly translated 蠟 into wax. To translate it into Zhous dynasty meat or year end meat may be a bit awkward. It never come to the mind of most people it means dried meat which would deprive the thing of its historical significance. People usually associate it with “臘月”、“臘冬” which means last month of chinese calendar.
What a wonderful discussion
What a wonderful discussion about something that intrigued me all those years ago. I can now visualise the taste and relate it to some extent to the Spanish or Italian dry-cured hams that I enjoy and which are eaten in similarly small quatities. I recall my first taste of roasted duck, or possibly chicken, skin that was served as a sort of appetizer in a restaurant somewhere in Wanchai. Since then I have always enjoyed crisply cooked turkey or chicken skin, and I shalll make sure that, when I cook our Christmas turkey in a day or so, the skin is nicely crisped. In some ways it is a better experience than eating the actual meat! My best wishes to everyone in the Gwulo 'family' for a happy Christmas, and good health and fortune in 2022. Andrew in England.