Streets or Buildings?

Submitted by David on Mon, 08/30/2010 - 15:22

A discussion about how to record addresses from the Jurors Lists, so they are easy to search and use later.

Annelise:

Terrace is a building: I rather think that the street name should be just that.  For example, Elliott Crescent is on Robinson Road.  It is not a road of its own.

Seymour Terrrace is on Seymour Road.

We do this in Hong Kong today.

On the other hand, some Terraces are streets, i.e. Lyndhurst Terrace today.  In future, to place a development that is called "x Terrace" on the correct street, we will need to have the street name free.

David:

At this point I'm most interested in having a simple standard that's easy for volunteers so that pages arrive from different people in as similar a format as possible. Then there's less cutting and pasting needed here when I assemble them all. So for the few problem cases listed above I've taken the not very scientific approach that if it sounds more like a streetname it goes in the street column.

There will be another chance to review this when all the lists have been typed in, and before the information gets put into a stricter database format. At the moment it doesn't make a big difference whether a name is in the street or building column, because searches are just done using google / the web browser's search and find it either way.

Annelise:

I came across my first "Terrace/Street" problem.  There are two listings, one right after the other:

"Ripon Terrace, Caine Road"
"Ripon Terrace"

This is why I suggest that we review all our entries and identify which Terraces are actually roads, and which are not.  If entries from later years, or more complete addresses, are not consistent, it will be harder to search over several years.

David:

At this point I'm looking for simple data entry, even if it ends up with a few things in the 'wrong' column.

Once all the lists have been typed, there'll be a chance to move things around before they get converted to a database format.

In the meantime, we should keep notes of anything (like your Ripon Terrace example) that is evidence of the name being either a building or a street. How about we use this thread for this purpose, and just add comments to it as we find anything relevant?

Annelise:

Private Streets: We now have the first 5 years all done, and it is time to review them.  The nice people who have volunteered to do data entry certainly should not be bothered with having to learn what Terraces were where. As you say, it can be fixed later.  That said ...

Hong Kong streets that contain the word "terrace" are usually private streets.  Then there are places like "Ezra's Lane" that are also private streets, and Lyndhurst Terrace, which - I think - is a public road.

So, where is the list of Private Streets in Hong Kong?

When you see an address on the jury list, the first thing that comes to mind is "where is that".  If the Terrace still exists as a private street, it is just a click away.

If not, you will need the name of the road it was on to find it.

With this in mind, I propose that if the data entry person has the information (like me), any Terrace that is the current name of the same road that is still in existance be put under "Street" othewise, under "Building".  I agree, the person doing the data entry need not be bothered with it.  But for those of us with more detailed knowledge, we can do it right the first time, and let the others follow the previous entry in the Excel Worksheet.

Existing Street:

- Seymour Terrace
- Lyndhurst Terrace
- Knutsford Terrace
- Rednaxella Terrace
- Knutsford Terrace

Buildings/Developments long gone:

- Belilios Terrace
- Ripon Terrace
- Alveston Terrace
- Elliott Crescent
- Lower Mosque Terrace
- Remedios Terrace

Data Entry:

Please follow the current guidelines when typing in new entries. If you type in a different way, it just means more cutting & pasting for me as I compile the different volunteers' lists into one.

How to answer "Where is it?":

This is an important question. But providing the name of the nearest main road wouldn't always work.

eg Another example cropped up on the current list, where I was asked where Elgin Street is in Kowloon. Well, it isn't anywhere in Kowloon any more, as it's been renamed to Haiphong Road. But it wouldn't make sense to enter both old and new name in the database.

Queen's Gardens is another tricky one. The name still exists on a modern development, but when these lists were prepared it was a street name. Today that street is called Hornsea Road.

If someone looks for Elgin Street Kowloon they'll probably use Google or our site search, and find it. A quick solutiion is to make a place for the name that's disappeared. That'll show up in the search results, and shows its location on a map to answer the question.

Streets or buildings:

Back to the original question.

Suggestions that it's a building:

  • It's written in italics in the jurors list
  • It has a street number on a major street
  • It's a single structure - knock one part down and you have to knock it all down

Suggestions that it's a street:

  • Not written in italics
  • No street number on another street
  • You can knock down & rebuild part of it independently from the rest.
  • It appears on a map drawn as a street (parallel lines), and the name on the street
  • It's listed in one of the government street directories in the "streets" section

Dear Annelise and David,

Came across several jurors who lived in Bellilios Terrace and Mosque Terrace when typing the jurors list. Just wondering if you guys have any information on these buidlings and the presentday location?

Regards,

Eric

I had once requested such private street list from Highway Department. The request was referred to Lands Department. It make sence as this Department knows the land status in HK.

However, I got the reply that they did not compile such list and asked me to search the "Lot Index Plan" (地段索引圖) from their department's Survey Office.

Permalink
Submitted by
C
on
Fri, 12/02/2011 - 15:13

Can these street indices be used as the standard?

Index to the streets, houses and leased lots of Victoria, Victoria Peak, and Kowloon, in the colony of Hong Kong (1894)

Index to the streets, house numbers, and lots of the city of Victoria, the Hill District, Wongneichong, Shaukiwan Road, Tai Hang, Tung Lo Wan, Quarry Bay, Saiwanho, Shaukiwan, Pokfulam, Aberdeen, Kowloon Point, Yaumati, Mongkoktsui, Taikoktsui, Fuktsunheung, Hunghom and Kowloon City Road in the colony of Hongkong (1910)

Index of the streets, house numbers and lots of the city of Victoria ... in the colony of Hong Kong (1938)

I recall reading one of them and many terraces are included.

Small point here, but I came across a misspelling of this street in the spreadsheet today ("Rednaxella") and now I see that it was not an isolated instance since Annelise spelt it that way in this thread. The road is definitely spelt "Rednaxela" today, and as far as I know it always has been. I've read somewhere how this strange name (it's "Alexander" backwards) came about, but I can't immediately recall where.