May I ask what is your source? This position has not been identified (to my knowledge) by Rob or any other documentation, I would love to see where you go this information from. Additionally, I have never seen any indication of this ruin exploring this area. Seems like a strange placement for an AOP, facing towards the city of Kowloon as the area is below the top ridge.
This AOP was referenced in Philip Cracknell's book " Battle of Hong Kong". The mention of the AOP is in the last couple of pages of the chapter" Evacuation of the Mainland".
These become difficult to clearly answer. The problem revolves around terminology in use pre war, where differing branches of the Army gave different descriptions to the same object, based on whether they may have been Infantry or Artillery e.g. the Artillery will refer to them as OP's because they have their equipment in them, whilst the Infantry will list them as AOP's, presumably to differentiate that they are not an Infantry OP. There are nine AOP's listed in the Defence Plan of the time, but this does not include the one at the Shing Mun Redoubt even though there was an Artillery Officer captured there. Confused? So am I.
AOP's on the Island were substantial concrete structures, connected to the appropriate batteries to direct firing. Those on the Mainland were, with the exception of the Shing Mun Redoubt and Crown Point, generally little more than trenches with apparently some concrete lining. These include Razor Hill OP, Lower Hebe Hill OP and Black Hill OP listed listed in the Defence Plan. None are given positions other than the name, and perhaps a four digit pre war grid reference which will place the position within a 1,000 metre square. Tates Pass OP gets a mention as well, but in the HKSRA War Diary is an OP called Tates Cairn, presumably the same place, also Dome Hill OP and Texaco. Whether these last two were prepared positions is unknown. What I believe to be the Tates Cairn OP is on the ridge line immediately above where the road passes over the ridge from NT side to Kowloon side. It is, or was, a nearly filled in series of trenches which form a square.
Thank you for your detailed reponse Rob. So it seems that an OP (as designated by pre-war records) is not neccessarily a structure or even always a pre-prepared position. Very interesting though, that there were a number of OP's that were just relatively unfortified and some perhaps temporary observation positions for personnel.
As for the actual site, I know the position you are talking about. Maybe someone might be able to snap a picture as it should be right off the road. Perhaps if Lewis sees these comments he can adjust the marker too.
Comments
Source Material?
May I ask what is your source? This position has not been identified (to my knowledge) by Rob or any other documentation, I would love to see where you go this information from. Additionally, I have never seen any indication of this ruin exploring this area. Seems like a strange placement for an AOP, facing towards the city of Kowloon as the area is below the top ridge.
Regards
Aidan
AOP
This AOP was referenced in Philip Cracknell's book " Battle of Hong Kong". The mention of the AOP is in the last couple of pages of the chapter" Evacuation of the Mainland".
Also the book mentions an
Also the book mentions an another AOP at Black Hill.
Tate's Cairn AOP
The book reference can be read here The location of the marker has not been confirmed.
Thank you! Have not managed
Thank you! Have not managed to get the book yet but I should.
The placement of the marker does seem odd however. Maybe Rob or Phillip can shed some more light on this in the comments section
regards
Aidan
Tates Cairn AOP
Give me a few days and I will get answers to this, and Black Hill AOP.
Tates Cairn AOP
These become difficult to clearly answer. The problem revolves around terminology in use pre war, where differing branches of the Army gave different descriptions to the same object, based on whether they may have been Infantry or Artillery e.g. the Artillery will refer to them as OP's because they have their equipment in them, whilst the Infantry will list them as AOP's, presumably to differentiate that they are not an Infantry OP. There are nine AOP's listed in the Defence Plan of the time, but this does not include the one at the Shing Mun Redoubt even though there was an Artillery Officer captured there. Confused? So am I.
AOP's on the Island were substantial concrete structures, connected to the appropriate batteries to direct firing. Those on the Mainland were, with the exception of the Shing Mun Redoubt and Crown Point, generally little more than trenches with apparently some concrete lining. These include Razor Hill OP, Lower Hebe Hill OP and Black Hill OP listed listed in the Defence Plan. None are given positions other than the name, and perhaps a four digit pre war grid reference which will place the position within a 1,000 metre square. Tates Pass OP gets a mention as well, but in the HKSRA War Diary is an OP called Tates Cairn, presumably the same place, also Dome Hill OP and Texaco. Whether these last two were prepared positions is unknown. What I believe to be the Tates Cairn OP is on the ridge line immediately above where the road passes over the ridge from NT side to Kowloon side. It is, or was, a nearly filled in series of trenches which form a square.
Re: Tate's Cairn AOP
I note on the 1957 map at: http://www.hkmaps.hk/mapviewer.html there is a "ruin" at Tate's Pass. Not sure what it is.
Tates Cairn AOP
The ruin is all that remains of PB 126.
Thanks
Thanks.
OP confusion
Thank you for your detailed reponse Rob. So it seems that an OP (as designated by pre-war records) is not neccessarily a structure or even always a pre-prepared position. Very interesting though, that there were a number of OP's that were just relatively unfortified and some perhaps temporary observation positions for personnel.
As for the actual site, I know the position you are talking about. Maybe someone might be able to snap a picture as it should be right off the road. Perhaps if Lewis sees these comments he can adjust the marker too.
Many thanks!
Aidan