It's either HMS Albion or HMS Bulwark in the foreground. One of our naval experts might be able to work out which and hence date this photo more precisely.
If 1968, then there were two possible time periods. Anything in this picture or the larger complete picture to indicate which? If Xmas decorations evident it would be December. If Chinese New year decorations, it would be January.
HMS Albion arrived in Hong Kong on 26th January 1968 from Singapore for a six-day rest and recreational visit for the 900 officers and men on board. The carrier fired a salute of 11 guns to the Commodore of Hong Kong as she was entering port and HMS Tamar answered back with a salute of seven guns.
Source: South China Morning Post, page 7, 27th January 1968
She left Hong Kong on 2nd February 1968 for Singapore.
Source: South China Morning Post, page 7, 1st February 1968
NB She was then in HK over the Chinese New Year period.
HMS Albion also arrived in Hong Kong on 19th December 1968. The customary salute of guns between the ship and HMS Tamar was again exchanged.
Source: South China Morning Post, page 9, 20th December 1968
If one googles "HMS Albion, Hong Kong 1968", one would be able to view the complete photo. No sign of Christmas or CNY decorations. I think Sutherland House is under scaffolding. That would make the voyage date to pre-1967. Thank you for taking the trouble of looking up the 1968 dates.
That extra infromation of pre-1967 is really helpful actually.
Dates HMS Albion in HK in the 1960s (dates of stay gleaned from South China Morning Post newspapers)
21st May-26th May 1960
2nd July 1960-mid-July 1960
23rd August 1960 - planned stay for 7-10 days
23rd February 1963 -15th March 1963
July and September 1963
23rd December 1963-Janaury 1964
29th May 1965- stayed for 7 days
5th Janaury 1966-15th Janaury 1966
22nd July 1966-2nd August 1966
She left HK on 2nd August 1966 back home for Portsmouth, UK via Singapore for an extended refit before re-visiting HK in Janaury 1968.
I've highighted in bold the likeliest date for the photo for several reasons. This blog entry from someone who served on HMS Albion 1967-1969 contains a photo of the ship in HK in December 1968 (its the 2nd photo - I presume the first photo of the ship by HMS Tamar was therefore January 1968) with the junior ranks in their dark long sleeved uniforms manning the ship's side known as Procedure Alpha. The ship was moored closer to Kowloon and the helicopter on board was the Westland Wasp - distinctly different from the helicopters in the opening post.
Whereas in the opening post the Procedure Alpha formation of the sailors were in their short sleeved/shorts tropical white navy uniforms - which strongly suggest the photo was taken in the summer. Other dates possible could be the warm months of May 1965, July or September 1963, May, July or August 1960 but the buildings in the photograph could potentially refute the other dates?
The 1967 completion date of Sutherland House is a guesstimate. The first photo on the blog entry shows Sutherland House with the top floors added on when compared to the original complete photo. Looks like the building is still under construction. As there is no mention of Albion being in HK in 1967, I guess the dates highlighted in bold may point to the date of the original photo.
(Update: I also note in the original complete photo that St. George's Building has been knocked down. 1966 appears to be correct.)
I believe the dates 22 July - 2 August 1966 are correct for this image with HMS Albion.
Berthed on the inner wall is HMS Berwick, her pendant number F115 is just discernible. She was of the Rothesay Class or Modified Type 12 anti submarine frigate. At this time she was a member of the 21st Escort Squadron with Captain D in HMS Dido and HMS Leander having reformed in 1965 on a Home/East of Suez/Home/ East of Suez Commission and i believe all visited Hong Kong. Berwick certainly did.
Those of you with full access to Naval/Shipping movements for these dates should find all these three frigates and possibly Delight as well, i have sighted the full image but have been unable to enlarge it as a Daring Class (Delight) appears alongside over Albion's island.
Source: South China Morning Post, page 28, 23rd July 1966; page 21, 24th July 1966; page 31, 25th July 1966; page 28, 26th July 1966; page 25, 27th July 1966
Only Berwick on North Wall and no mention of Albion on 22nd July 1966 issue.
Only Albion on North Arm and no mention of Berwick in port 28th July 1966, 29th July 1966 and 30th July 1966 issues.
Therefore, can say for certainty the photo was taken between 22nd July 1966 to 27th July 1966 inclusive (given we know HMS Albion arrived in HK on 22nd July 1966 so the ship name would not have made it to print as berthed in port for the 22nd July 1966 issue)
Given that Procedure Alpha, or lining of the deck, is traditional when returning to port for Royal Navy ships, I would say the evidence mounts up to a precise date of 22nd July 1966 for the photo. Even more precisely, HMS Albion arrived in the morning (South China Morning Post, page 7, 23rd July 1966)
Thanks to everyone who contributed their expertise on the different strands of information and evidence.
Comments
Albion or Bulwark?
It's either HMS Albion or HMS Bulwark in the foreground. One of our naval experts might be able to work out which and hence date this photo more precisely.
HMS Albion
Have seen the complete photo before listed for sale. It is HMS Albion, dated 1968. Cannot confirm the voyage dates.
January or December
If 1968, then there were two possible time periods. Anything in this picture or the larger complete picture to indicate which? If Xmas decorations evident it would be December. If Chinese New year decorations, it would be January.
HMS Albion arrived in Hong Kong on 26th January 1968 from Singapore for a six-day rest and recreational visit for the 900 officers and men on board. The carrier fired a salute of 11 guns to the Commodore of Hong Kong as she was entering port and HMS Tamar answered back with a salute of seven guns.
Source: South China Morning Post, page 7, 27th January 1968
She left Hong Kong on 2nd February 1968 for Singapore.
Source: South China Morning Post, page 7, 1st February 1968
NB She was then in HK over the Chinese New Year period.
HMS Albion also arrived in Hong Kong on 19th December 1968. The customary salute of guns between the ship and HMS Tamar was again exchanged.
Source: South China Morning Post, page 9, 20th December 1968
Re: Photo
If one googles "HMS Albion, Hong Kong 1968", one would be able to view the complete photo. No sign of Christmas or CNY decorations. I think Sutherland House is under scaffolding. That would make the voyage date to pre-1967. Thank you for taking the trouble of looking up the 1968 dates.
That extra infromation is
That extra infromation of pre-1967 is really helpful actually.
Dates HMS Albion in HK in the 1960s (dates of stay gleaned from South China Morning Post newspapers)
21st May-26th May 1960
2nd July 1960-mid-July 1960
23rd August 1960 - planned stay for 7-10 days
23rd February 1963 -15th March 1963
July and September 1963
23rd December 1963-Janaury 1964
29th May 1965- stayed for 7 days
5th Janaury 1966-15th Janaury 1966
22nd July 1966-2nd August 1966
She left HK on 2nd August 1966 back home for Portsmouth, UK via Singapore for an extended refit before re-visiting HK in Janaury 1968.
I've highighted in bold the likeliest date for the photo for several reasons. This blog entry from someone who served on HMS Albion 1967-1969 contains a photo of the ship in HK in December 1968 (its the 2nd photo - I presume the first photo of the ship by HMS Tamar was therefore January 1968) with the junior ranks in their dark long sleeved uniforms manning the ship's side known as Procedure Alpha. The ship was moored closer to Kowloon and the helicopter on board was the Westland Wasp - distinctly different from the helicopters in the opening post.
Whereas in the opening post the Procedure Alpha formation of the sailors were in their short sleeved/shorts tropical white navy uniforms - which strongly suggest the photo was taken in the summer. Other dates possible could be the warm months of May 1965, July or September 1963, May, July or August 1960 but the buildings in the photograph could potentially refute the other dates?
Re: Photo on Website
The 1967 completion date of Sutherland House is a guesstimate. The first photo on the blog entry shows Sutherland House with the top floors added on when compared to the original complete photo. Looks like the building is still under construction. As there is no mention of Albion being in HK in 1967, I guess the dates highlighted in bold may point to the date of the original photo.
(Update: I also note in the original complete photo that St. George's Building has been knocked down. 1966 appears to be correct.)
Albion with Berwick 1966
I believe the dates 22 July - 2 August 1966 are correct for this image with HMS Albion.
Berthed on the inner wall is HMS Berwick, her pendant number F115 is just discernible. She was of the Rothesay Class or Modified Type 12 anti submarine frigate. At this time she was a member of the 21st Escort Squadron with Captain D in HMS Dido and HMS Leander having reformed in 1965 on a Home/East of Suez/Home/ East of Suez Commission and i believe all visited Hong Kong. Berwick certainly did.
Those of you with full access to Naval/Shipping movements for these dates should find all these three frigates and possibly Delight as well, i have sighted the full image but have been unable to enlarge it as a Daring Class (Delight) appears alongside over Albion's island.
Thank you.
22nd July 1966
“SHIPPING IN PORT
H.M. SHIPS
Albion, North Arm.
Berwick, North Wall.”
Source: South China Morning Post, page 28, 23rd July 1966; page 21, 24th July 1966; page 31, 25th July 1966; page 28, 26th July 1966; page 25, 27th July 1966
Only Berwick on North Wall and no mention of Albion on 22nd July 1966 issue.
Only Albion on North Arm and no mention of Berwick in port 28th July 1966, 29th July 1966 and 30th July 1966 issues.
Therefore, can say for certainty the photo was taken between 22nd July 1966 to 27th July 1966 inclusive (given we know HMS Albion arrived in HK on 22nd July 1966 so the ship name would not have made it to print as berthed in port for the 22nd July 1966 issue)
Given that Procedure Alpha, or lining of the deck, is traditional when returning to port for Royal Navy ships, I would say the evidence mounts up to a precise date of 22nd July 1966 for the photo. Even more precisely, HMS Albion arrived in the morning (South China Morning Post, page 7, 23rd July 1966)
Thanks to everyone who contributed their expertise on the different strands of information and evidence.